Thursday, October 3, 2013

Glenn Greenwald at Work

This is a revealing and important string of Twitter messages, 
going to the heart of both journalism and leaks. 

I don't follow all that is in this string of messages nor do I know any of the participants, but I have the same feeling watching Greenwald I get observing any professional doing what he does well, from woodwork to sports to music to surgery.  He pushes the envelope but he's careful not to inflict avoidable harm.  Overall I'm impressed. 

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW 26 Sep  Those scratching their heads over whether the NSA can crack this or that: Greenwald & friends should stop hoarding & eliminate the mystery.
Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @JLLLOW You seem to have decided we have some master list of the crypto methods they've cracked. Do tell: what's your basis for this?

Matthew Green ‏@matthew_d_green26 Sep  @ggreenwald @JLLLOW I think there's more useful information in those documents than you realize. Please do bring in more experts.

Glenn GreenwaldVerified account‏@ggreenwald  @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW Any time you'd like to come to Rio to work journalistically on the docs, that'd be great - let me know

Matthew Green ‏@matthew_d_green 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @JLLLOW Thanks (and it's tempting) but: I like being able to comment! I don't want to end up having to keep secrets like Bruce.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW   That's a big problem: lots of experts demanding more disclosure won't get their hands dirty themselves.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW Every doc that we release bears risk- demanding more disclosure while refusing to work on docs is a bit problematic

Matthew Green ‏@matthew_d_green 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @JLLLOW Then let me think about it.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW Please do - I'm serious - let me know any time.

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW26  Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Considering how much public interest there is in your current work, I'm glad you've articulated this problem.

Dave Metzger ‏@dametzger 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Good grief Glenn, it's not to take lightly. Bcming a target, let alone professional conflicts, is a big deal.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald26 Sep  @dametzger @matthew_d_green What?? I didn't say it wasn't an issue. But we ALL have issues with disclosures. *That's the point.

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green  If the problem is sourcing expertise, then it can be crowdsourced

Robin ‏@caulkthewagon 26 Sep  @JLLLOW crowdsourced before or after a data dump like you desire? Because the former hasn't ever quite worked. @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW 26 Sep  @caulkthewagon @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Up until today, I didn't realise how reticent crypto ppl were to give guidance to Glenn...

Dave Metzger ‏@dametzger 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Of course. There are many people who'd like to help you but it would turn their lives upside down. Tough call.

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep  @JLLLOW @caulkthewagon @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Crypto ppl have jobs. Some which require sec clearance. What did you expect?

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @dametzger @matthew_d_green Right - maybe those people should be a bit more aware of others' risks when calling for more disclosure

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW 26 Sep  @semibogan @caulkthewagon @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green You're right, no expert can ever give time to assist a journo with a story.

Dave Metzger ‏@dametzger 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Totally agree. btw - do you think USG knows what Snowden actually released yet?

the grugq ‏@thegrugq 26 Sep  @matthew_d_green @ggreenwald @JLLLOW w00h00... Party in Rio! Go for H2HC.

Proctor ‏@semibogan  26 Sep  @JLLLOW @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green got a take down from JHU just for writing a blog post on info made public. What do you think they'd do

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep  @JLLLOW @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green  if they discovered he assisted with analysis. I don't fault any of them for having trepidation.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @semibogan @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green My only point is that people who are restrained by their own risk should think about others' risks.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @semibogan @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green It's easy to demand others release more docs- it's a lot harder when you are the one doing the releasing

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @dametzger @matthew_d_green No, I do not think they know at all.

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green I have no problem with what you guys are doing FWIW. we ask for more cause we want to know.

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @semibogan @matthew_d_green I didn't realise you had a problem wrt expert analysis until today. Have you stated this previously?

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green   but honestly, you guys are taking the biggest risk. So I say release when you are good and ready.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @JLLLOW @semibogan @matthew_d_green I've talked about how Chris refused to work on docs - but we now have Bruce Schneier.

Ward Harkavy ‏@WHarkavy 26 Sep  Bullshit on the arrogant "hands dirty" comment. Send me a ticket to Rio and I'll work on them. @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @semibogan @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green Thanks - but it's also important to realize: we don't have a lot of what people are demanding

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green I think some see this as a bottomless well. The rational know that's not the case.

Dave Metzger ‏@dametzger 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Thanks. Do you have time for another question?

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green we are unbelievably FORTUNATE to see anything at all.

Duncan Scott ‏@DuncanScott19 26 Sep  @semibogan @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green It's more a case ( us non experts) of people JUST DONT KNOW. We get a little , we want a lot

Duncan Scott ‏@DuncanScott19 26 Sep  @semibogan @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green People just dont know what it takes to understand what they are reading about

Duncan Scott ‏@DuncanScott19 26 Sep  @semibogan @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green cont: and how it effects them and or the rest of us for that matter.

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep  @DuncanScott19 @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green  I know. Hey I want the whole firehose as well. But sometimes just gotta take a step back

Duncan Scott ‏@DuncanScott19 26 Sep  @semibogan @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green Yep, ya do. I tend to go by the old saying: "Less is More"...but man I hate it at times, lol

Duncan Scott ‏@DuncanScott19 26 Sep  @semibogan @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green Might be corney to say it, but I am very greatful for the disclosures and what it took.

Proctor ‏@semibogan 26 Sep  @DuncanScott19 @ggreenwald @JLLLOW @matthew_d_green it's easy to lose sight of the risks when you are a 3rd party. So yeah, grateful indeed

Mike Doherty ‏@mikedoherty_ca 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green: I would really like to see something like this happen. What's blocking infosec expert collaboration?

Mike Doherty ‏@mikedoherty_ca  26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green: Affording time off work? International travel? Lack of motivation? Some of these problems might be soluble.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @mikedoherty_ca Mostly a fear of working with and then publishing top secret documents (speaking generally, not about .@matthew_d_green)

Andrea ‏@puellavulnerata 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW Asking someone to commit to keep a secret before knowing it is problematic too, though.

Andrea ‏@puellavulnerata 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @JLLLOW  I won't claim @matthew_d_green's level of crypto clue, but (hypothetically), if I were invited to work on those docs...

Andrea ‏@puellavulnerata 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW greatest fear would be that I would learn something I couldn't keep silent in good conscience.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald26 Sep  @puellavulnerata @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW  That's not the reason he gave for reluctance - & that hasn't happened with anyone so far

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @puellavulnerata @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW I didn't do what I've done, nor did Snowden, to suppress things that should be published.

Alex Stapleton ‏@alexstapleton 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Limiting who gets to see them to a few people greatly increases risk faced by those few people.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @alexstapleton @matthew_d_green That's totally absurd - nothing would be riskier for those involved than publicly dumping all the docs

Alex Stapleton ‏@alexstapleton 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green I suspect there are ways you could involve more people in a lower risk capacity somehow though...

Mike Doherty ‏@mikedoherty_ca 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green: I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. I don't know how to even begin to solve that one :(

Andrea ‏@puellavulnerata 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW I don't think you have, but 'should be published' hides a world of possible disagreements.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @puellavulnerata @JLLLOW I doubt there are many people in the world with a significantly more permissive interpretation of that than I

Andrea ‏@puellavulnerata 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW Identities of specific products, companies, persons collaborating with #NSA to backdoor, e.g.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 26 Sep  @puellavulnerata @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW  I believe all of those things should be published.

Alex Stapleton ‏@alexstapleton 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green I'm certainly not suggesting you do that!

Tom Drinkwater ‏@Tom_Drinkwater 26 Sep  @ggreenwald i would imagine @puellavulnerata may be one of them though.

Andrea ‏@puellavulnerata 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW ...but that redacted line in the SIGINT enabling operations document?

Alex Stapleton ‏@alexstapleton 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green Seems like some expert knowledge could be shared without risk implied by full access though.

Dave Metzger ‏@dametzger 26 Sep  @JLLLOW @puellavulnerata @ggreenwald @semibogan @matthew_d_green I think it's a matter of quantity, not quality as B. Schneier is on board.

Truth = Propaganda ‏@OccupyBayStreet 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @puellavulnerata @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW here's exactly what's hidden that needs to come out pronto

Truth = Propaganda ‏@OccupyBayStreet 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @puellavulnerata @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW But otherwise 100% agree w publication strategy and accompanying courage.

Justin Troutman ‏@justintroutman 26 Sep  @ggreenwald @matthew_d_green @JLLLOW Cryptographers are stewards of these risks, and can help shoulder this burden unlike anyone else.

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